Simon, Well the Norse Gods myth is certainly older than the 2000 years (I'm assuming Valkyrie's belief is this from his/her nickname) :)

It certainly is blasphemous but seeing as we live in a (just about) free society then such comments are permissible and indeed vital if free speech is to be affirmed and philosophical questioning encouraged. You seem not have realised young Valk. that a huge examination of religion is currently under way across the world and you're way behind the debate with these arrogant protestations and pleading for wholly unearned 'respect'. Debate means words rather than bombs and that's perhaps why I haven't been burned at the stake yet, I'd consider this an advance for society. I stand by the principles of free inquiry and free speech enshrined in the enlightenment project. Your special pleading not to be 'offended' for your late bronze age belief in fairies is simply laughable in a free society or at least it would be if the forces who would enshrine such offences in law weren't in the ascendency. So what if you're offended? address the arguments (which you never do). The respect which you demand for your beliefs is wholly undeserved if you can't even string a coherent argument in their defence together. If you want to live your life by 2000 year old creeds that were written when people didn't even know that the earth revolves around the sun then knock yourself out. No one else is obliged to take them seriously. I say again, your Bible is full racism, genocide, fratricide, murder, bigotry, racism and homophobia. I'd go back and have another read if I were you. You'll also find God telling you that you should expect to be mocked for your beliefs. Hey I'm just doing the Lord's work.

Aha my point has been proven! All you guys getting worked up because of the subject we're discussing. I have never seen so many postings within a short space of time.

Chris; so you do agree with me then.

Simon; check your piefork dictionary.

WongEdan: Not censorship, just avoidance. I said "should."

Philry4N: Not hatred, just being careful.

Grun'n : Jeez, you sure have an ugly personality problem. Please give

me your very honest opinion when someone says "......most vindictive, genocidal, capricious and just plain evil characters in all of literature."

I can take that remark as blasphemous or even slandering another's faith. Or, do you also subscribe to such uncouth remarks.

I also think he may have got his vegetarians and his vegans mixed up.

Valk:

If anti-religionists have to stay out of here, so do religionists then, I'd say.

And, no matter how you put it, and what words you use, they are still killing the animals.

Slitting the throat and then watching some animal bleed to death may be all holy to you, but not to all.

To some it seems rather barbaric, and maybe offensive even.

Goes to show.

Valkyrie: your calls for censorship just show the weakness of your own case. Perhaps blinkered people whose lives are ruled by ancient superstitions should stay out of this forum...

And for padt: "if you take them as literal, historic fact." So which bits are wrong then?

This article is about how religion is irrelevant to modern life, so you guys are missing the point.

@padt "Most Jewish and Christian biblical scholars today do not read or understand them in this way. And they haven't for over 100 years"

So, essentially you are saying that they were wrong all those centuries? Or the goalposts have been moved to allow for modern sensibilities? Either way it does make something of a nonsense of the religion and it's teachings.

And I'm unsure why, in a country so dominated by religion, such as Indonesia, why it should be out of bounds to discuss. it rather misses the point of this forum surely?

Valkyrie: your calls for censorship just show the weakness of your own case. Perhaps blinkered people whose lives are ruled by ancient superstitions should stay out of this forum...

And for padt: "if you take them as literal, historic fact." So which bits are wrong then?

This article is about how religion is irrelevant to modern life, so you guys are missing the point.

@Valkyrie why the sudden hatred? Maybe you're the one who has got some phobia :) may Thor bless you.

@padt I'm reading genesis and it just says that Cain offered veggies while Abel offered meat. to quote : In the course of time Cain presented some of the land's produce as an offering to the LORD. And Abel also presented [an offering] — some of the firstborn of his flock and their fat portions. Well Cain was a farmer what can he do but offer some veggies :)

A religious belief is nothing more then an opinion. The fact that it may be a mass-organized, indoctrinated and ritualized opinion doesn't alter that. Again, Valks, start your own sanitized blog and/or move to Iran, Saudi Arabia or Vatican City. I believe that they really appreciate your theocratic sensitivities. Here's a guy who is suffering from a surplus of hollow knee-jerk statements, cloaked under the guise of a defender of web morality. I wonder if it's hard for her to read her own comments.

philry4rn - just for the record - the religious 'myth' ( a true but not historic religious story set outside of history, with an important, perennial message) of Cain and Abel is not whether God prefers blood and rejects grain and vegetables. Cain's rebuke by God was brought about because he held back on his sacrifice. In other words, he grudgingly offered only what was the minimum and and not of his best. For this reason his (you could hardly call it ) sacrifice was rejected.

Same thing goes on today in other ways.

SimonP: Yes these stories can come across as portraying a pretty nasty God, if you take them as literal, historic fact.

Most Jewish and Christian biblical scholars today do not read or understand them in this way. And they haven't for over 100 years.

A good modern commentary by a reputable scholar may shed light on some of your understandable objections. Be careful of fundamentalist 'scholars' though.

I've mentioned it many times before...don't play "smackdowns" on religious issues. Antireligionists should stay out of this public forum.

As for Desi, I wonder why she used the verb "kill" instead of sacrifice. Who cares if you're a vegetarian! By the way, do you drink fresh milk or eat patries which uses milk?

I am offended by some of the responses here. If you do not believe in Islam that is just fine with me. But to make a mockery of a religious belief in such a public forum is uncalled for. Ms Desi if you wish to sacrifice a watermelon or something else please do; just do not relate it to Idul Adha.

PeterR : I am also saddenned by the way the meat is distributed just as I am by distribution of zakat during Idul Fitri. I believe it is a reflection of the desperation many are faced with in this country and also the lack of organisation by those so called Panitia. They could have perhaps distributed coupons to those deserving ahead of time to be redeemed for the meat on the day of sacrifice. There may be other safe, efficient and dignified way to do this if some thought had gone into the process.

The largest sacrifice I see during this obscene ritual is the sacrifice that is made by the poorer people, who are forced to sacrifice their dignity to clamber and beg to get a handful of meat: contaminated meat in the case of that given out by the Police.

The only gain here is that made by those people who are rich enough to buy the animals for slaughter, who are able to convince themselves that there act of charity towards those that they actually don’t give a damn about throughout the rest of the year, purifies them sufficiently to go about business as usual the following day.

For our country it would be best to sacrifice rats. There are way to many rats here, in the cities and also in the countryside.

Here's a guy who's suffering from theophobia, cloaked under the guise as being an atheist or maybe an agnostic. I wonder if it's hard for him to sing his national anthem.

The God of the Old Testament (which is where large portions of the Qu'ran were lifted from - including the appalling Abraham and Isaac story), is one of the most vindictive, genocidal, capricious and just plain evil characters in all of literature.

god loves blood, correct me if I'm wrong but Cain was scorned because he sacrifices fruits and vegetables right? That's your answer there.